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In a world where even the smallest disagreements can lead to arguments, violence, and even

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death, two brothers tackle the difficult subjects.

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So this is part two of our conversations about free speech and of course free speech

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been a pretty broad topic.

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There's lots of ways that can go.

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Last week we focused on free speech at universities and this week we're going to take a

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particular aspect of speech and looking at the banning of books and other content, media

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in particular, that is happening in a lot of schools, very popular topic these days,

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or I guess the action may be seems a little more, who knows if it is actually more popular,

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maybe just getting more news right now, I don't really know.

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I ran across a something that I feel like sort of sets the mood, maybe use this as the

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starting point.

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There was a Supreme Court case in 1982 and in the Supreme Court case they addressed,

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they noted the special characteristics of the school library and this was around

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the removal of books and there was the way that the majority ruled was, they mentioned

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making it especially appropriate for the recognition of first amendment rights of students, including

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the right to access information and ideas.

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So many places you want to take this or anything you want to do?

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I'm not really sure, I'm going to have my thoughts on it.

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It was maybe you want to start out because it was your thoughts, you kind of set the stage for

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this one, right?

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Okay, yeah.

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So the reason why it's been so much, or one of the reasons why it's been so much in the news lately

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is because in Florida and Texas there's been a lot of book banning.

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There's been a general movement of parents getting more involved in some of the activities

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going on in the school systems, parents joining the boards and taking a more active role in some

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of the activities of teachers in a course books and where what the their children have access

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to both in the school classrooms and in the libraries.

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The reason why it initially caught my attention, I sent you the message that I was interested

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in, it was because there was a bit of controversy in Florida around a Disney movie called Ruby

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Bridges, which was about the segregation or the desegregation of some of the schools in the

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Arkansas little rock school system.

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And I believe the girl, one of the girls name was Ruby Bridges, which was named the title.

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And a notice went out to the parents that this movie was being shown, one of the classes,

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a parent, the parents were given the choice of allowing their children not to go and attend

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the school and that day.

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One parent decided that her she didn't want her child to see that moving.

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And after the movie aired, went and complained anyway, even though her child had not seen it,

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because she was concerned that children might believe white people are racist.

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That was the just of what it was that she was saying.

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And I feel like this gets to the heart of the concept, which is access to information and the

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other side of it, parents having say in what their children are being taught and what their

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children are being exposed to.

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Yeah, I think that's probably an accurate depiction.

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Do you think Ryan that there should be any control for talking about a brand?

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Any control or I guess, it's interesting how it's framed, well, a banning of books.

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But really, when you have a library with children, do you think that we should just put the

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same books in a children's library as we do in a adult library, correct?

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Absolutely, correct.

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Obviously, a course to that is going to be, well, I mean, I guess all of it is as an appropriate

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for children.

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Yes, we'd say, okay, if it's appropriate.

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And both from the perspective of, well, with the children even understand it, we're

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not going to give them, you know, college level math or something, they're not going to be interested

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in certain things.

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They can't read certain books.

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You know, elementary school kids probably are going to be as interested in, you know, I mean,

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even something like 18th century, 19th century British literature or something like that.

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So the first aspect would be, well, let's try to put stuff in there that they're going

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to understand.

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It's going to be interesting to them.

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It's going to be a little bit more difficult and the great brain than, you know, ancient or Victorian

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literature or whatever, you know, I guess we're going to try to keep cater to them that way.

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But also, and I think we can both agree on that.

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And I would also say, well, to some degree, we should be protecting them from certain things.

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Would you agree with that?

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Yes, you know, you don't want to expose, let's say, an eight-year-old to graphic imagery of

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concentration camps of the bodies piled up in the concentration camps.

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There's things, one of the cuts that comes up as age appropriate.

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And I see you want to say something, so you go ahead.

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Well, or pornography.

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Sure.

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There's all sorts of things.

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And we can call that banning books, or we can say, well, we should be thinking at least about

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our audience.

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Yes.

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I mean, even if you talked about a public library where we all go, you can call it banning books,

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but maybe we'd at least be well marks certain sections that we don't want, like, graphic

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in, you know, covers of books or something.

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And we want to be somewhat controlled even at a public library, but certainly at an elementary school.

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So I think sometimes there's this, you know, if you're on the right, you're calling everything

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that they're doing racist and bigoted or pornographic, and if you're on the left, then you're

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saying, well, they're banning books.

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Well, we're all banning books.

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I mean, if you want to take it in the broadest sense of the word, in the sense that we are trying

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to figure out what's going to work best for those kids.

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So I don't have a problem with thinking about this at least.

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And certainly, I think parents should be involved because, you know, these parents are, you

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know, they're the parents.

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They have responsibility for these kids.

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So I do definitely think they should be involved.

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And it is surprising to me that there is some pushback.

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There was a voted California recently, that school board said, yeah, we're not.

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There's certain information that they want to withhold from parents.

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Both about curricula and also certain things that their kids are doing.

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And I think that's where we have these issues.

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You know, on the one side, you know, there's probably, you know, there's probably problems with

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what both sides are doing.

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And there's probably more than just two sides.

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But it's very reasonable, I think, that people are getting engaged in this and more so than

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the past because it seems like now, like we just said, well, for, you know, almost like,

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well, for some reason, parents are getting more involved in these school boards and trying

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to figure out what the curriculum is.

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Well, I think it's because, you know, the curriculum curriculum are changing.

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Now maybe there were times like, what's the movie, foot loose, you know, where parents got

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two upset about Slaur House five or, you know, some other books.

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But now, I mean, so parents have always been upset or wanting to, you know, put the blinders

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on or something.

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But we should have these conversations.

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Like, would you agree with that?

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That we should be having these conversations, thinking about these things?

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Yes.

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But, and I think that you're right, I think that there's been a general move away from interaction,

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that parents have sort of taken a step back from the, what's going on in the schools and

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haven't really known this going on.

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And then there's been this, this mad rush back saying, let's been, what's been happening behind

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our backs, we need to go and fix all this.

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And California is often brought up as an example of, you know, the extreme activities on

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the left.

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And, you know, some of the stuff that comes out justifiably so, you know, they've had some

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pretty extreme examples of things that they've done, you know, like wanting to take away the names

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of some of the, the schools, the Abraham Lincoln Elementary and the George Washington Middle

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School, you know, something along those lines, presidents that most people would say have

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a pretty followed place in our nation's history.

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And San Francisco is decided that these guys are, you know, their views at the time were

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inappropriate compared to the perspective that we have now.

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So yeah, I think that it's good that people are having the conversations.

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And, you know, when you talked about the public libraries, libraries, that we do have sections

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for, you know, the different age groups, different material, different content.

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And I don't care what age you are.

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I don't think anybody's going to go into a public library and expect to see a hustler magazine.

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You know, they're certain content that you just won't find at the library.

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And no one would be upset by that, at least I don't think anybody would be upset by the very

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few people.

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I'm very, very few people.

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There we go.

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Thank you.

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I don't want to jump to too many conclusions.

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So yes, most people would agree that there's certain content that shouldn't be there.

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And again, it comes back to age appropriate.

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Now, age appropriate, maybe that's where people have a little bit of an issue because

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different people are having a different idea of what age appropriate actually is.

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Like a fourth grader seeing this movie about the reintegration or integration of the public

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school systems in Little Rock.

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I don't know what age they actually were.

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They said it was, I thought it was around fourth grade, I could be wrong.

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The fact that that was, they didn't want their child to be exposed to it for some reason.

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And this is where people have a disagreement about what is age appropriate.

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The mother had one idea assuming it was an age appropriate issue.

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Maybe it was just the racetrack.

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I don't know.

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But the school district felt that that population and most of the parents that were sent the

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notice felt that the movie was age appropriate for the students that were being given the

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opportunity to watch it.

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Yeah, I mean, it's a tough.

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We talk about this race stuff, but I think the greater issue that I'm seeing that people are

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worried about is sexuality, transgender issues and things like that.

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And because I read a little bit about that, the movie, the Ruby bridges or whatever.

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And the parent, I haven't seen the film.

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I don't know too much about it.

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But they didn't want her child to watch the film.

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She alleged that the movie's use of racial slurs and depiction of racially motivated violence could

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teach white people to hate black people.

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Now I have no idea.

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I have heard that there are some, I mean, it is true.

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But I don't know anything about this film.

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So it could be way off base.

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But there are, for example, the 1619 project.

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And a lot of you, which was a project that the near times put out, I'm talking about what

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they said were the true origins of our country.

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And many people talked about, well, this liked it because they said it maligned some of our

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founding fathers and painted them in this horrible light.

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And made people feel like, you know, that America itself was a flawed place.

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It needed to be torn down.

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So it's not just that people are saying, hey, I don't want to see anything about racism, but

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they're worried about how it's presented.

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And I think there's some justification there.

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We should at least be thinking about that.

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For example, if the 1619 project doesn't do a good job in somebody's opinion of actually presenting

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the facts and showing people what actually happened, it could really color people's

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opinion of their fellow Americans, of white people, of black people, of the founding fathers,

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a lot of different.

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So yeah, I do think they're a little bit worried about what these kids are being shown because

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if it's all from one perspective, then that could be dangerous for their children.

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And they have every right to go in and start talking about these things.

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For sure.

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No, I think these are good conversations to have.

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I'm just a little bit baffled that someone would watch a movie about the reintegration of

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a public school system and worrying that someone might come away from watching this movie,

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a white person might come away from watching this movie and thinking, oh, I don't like black people.

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Or I'm now less inclined to like a black person because if you watch anything from that

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ear or anything about those types of situations, they don't really promote.

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They don't glorify the white racists in those movies.

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They kind of paint them as, as, not a lot of say demonic, but definitely as the villains

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and the films and it's not often that you'd have like a middle school or a elementary school

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saying, yeah, I want to go and be like the bad guy in that film that I saw.

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Yeah, I think you're right.

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I mean, have you seen the film?

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No.

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Yeah, so I don't really know.

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It sounds like you're right.

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I don't have any concern with showing kids, I think we need to learn that history.

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We need to learn about the mistakes that were made in the 50s and 60s and ever since

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the founding of the country, we need to learn about the concentration camps.

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But we need to be somewhat careful about how it's presented.

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But yeah, I definitely think we need to learn about it.

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I don't know exactly what this one promoted, but yeah, it sounds like it should be fine.

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So I don't think we have much to argue about this one, except that we haven't seen it,

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so we can't really argue about how bad good or bad it is.

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It sounds like it would be fine.

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To go back to the idea of some of the books that are being then, you're right that a lot

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of the issues often tend to be around LGBT, Q, plus those types of topics.

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But then there's a bunch of others.

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There was one of the books that they're trying to ban in Texas when Wilmer Rudolph played

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basketball, which is an illustrated children's book touching on the racism that Olympian will

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merute off experience growing up in Tennessee in the 1940s.

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And the parent wanted it removed because it opines prejudice based on race.

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Another apparently the kite runner is a book that a fair number of parents are wanting to

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have vans.

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It's not at the top of the list, but it's not buried at the bottom either.

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That's an interesting one because it's not a picture book.

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It's not a book that's really, the style and the content is not really for young children.

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And I read the book years ago, I could imagine maybe high schoolers reading it.

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I can't imagine anyone younger than a high school even being interested or if it was put in front

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of them being able to really slog their way through it because it isn't a style or a subject

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matter that would be interesting.

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But parents are wanting it removed.

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So they're really wanting it removed.

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I would imagine from high school libraries, which to me is a little interesting.

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Yeah, I think you could probably find examples of just like you could when you watched

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foot lose of examples of parents that are trying to ban too many books.

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Yeah, that one I think would be fine.

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I guess the other concern is, you know, the only thing I could imagine that people were upset

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with kite runner was that it paints maybe certain cultures, maybe Muslim cultures with

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many kind of plant marriages or the marriages where they're not really by choice.

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And so that girl was forced to marry somebody that was much older than her that she didn't

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really, that she didn't really, it wasn't attracted to, it didn't love.

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And so you would hope that when they talk about those things, especially if it's young

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and pressure, it will be a good idea.

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Well, there's some examples where it works really well.

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I have a friend from Sri Lanka and he, his wife or his parents, it was kind of a, what do

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you call that Brian?

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Not a big church.

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A voice marriage?

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No, I can't remember the word, but his parents were heavily involved and they wasn't that

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they chose a girl and then said you have to marry her, they would find, so they're saying

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there's different levels of it.

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Sometimes it's the parents just make the decisions.

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In this case, for example, his parents would say, hey, we think there's this girl, we like

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their family, we like her, we want you to meet her, they would get together and he'd be like

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not interested and she could do the same thing.

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Well, when the finally they found somebody that he liked and that liked him, that's when they

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got married.

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So it was organized and orchestrated by the parents, but there was a lot of choice.

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So there should be some talk to those kids like, hey, it's not always like, it's not

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like if you live in Afghanistan, I think that's where Kite Renner took place.

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You're going to be forced in your young girl, you're going to marry someone who's going to

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be forced into it.

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There's probably more to it and anyway, as long as there's, you just worry about how it's presented,

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how many books these kids get and is it slanted in one direction that kind of makes them

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changes their worldview in a way that doesn't give them the chance to really see the

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big picture.

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You're right, you're right.

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This is one of the advantages to having these these books addressed within a class is that there

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is almost always a discussion that happens around it.

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Now, you're certain you do have to hope to agree that the teachers are going to bring these

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subjects up because if they don't, it's up to the students are bringing up, or else it doesn't

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actually happen.

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So yes, there is concern.

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And the other concern you would have is that someone saying, well, if the topics are not brought

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up, then the children might come away with a misconception, therefore I don't want the books addressed

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at all, which of course, then the children are going to have a very limited experience.

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Because let's be honest, most people's knowledge about if we use the kite runners,

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an example, their knowledge of Afghanistan is as a warfront.

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And so then the kite runner gives a much deeper personal example of some of the people that

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live there, and so there is a real down value to having that sort of exposure.

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And so all this sort of comes down to the tug of war between the parents and the school system,

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the teachers, the administrator.

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And both people we would like to hope have the children's best interests at heart and how

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that manifest is going to be in conflict sometimes.

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Definitely, I live in Oregon now, and a friend of mine who lives near Portland, he had a

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nine-year-old daughter, and they had a section that was coming up where they were going to

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be talking about sexualality.

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And he asked to see the curriculum, and they're like, well, we can't send it to you.

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He's like, why not?

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Just email it to me so I can look at, nope, we can't do that.

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It's copyright all this stuff.

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He couldn't look at it.

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So then he had to go down there and he had to be on site, at least they would let him look at it,

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which was great.

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But he started reading through it, and he's got all these questions because they're talking

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about a child's sexuality.

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The children's sexuality, what they're, you may feel that you're not the right year, the

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wrong gender.

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You've been misgendered.

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Like things like that, they're talking about in this curriculum.

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And he's like, so that is very concerning to people.

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Like, hey, I don't need you to talk with my kids about that, and start leading them down

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up half.

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These are impressionable kids.

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And then you start to try to talk about it, but you can't, they're only give you so much information.

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And they won't tell you who's making the decisions about what the curriculum is or how you

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go about changing it.

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These people feel pretty powerless in the curriculum that's being set.

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It's very hard.

306
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You have to go down after work.

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It's very hard to get in and even look at the curriculum.

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And you have to read through all of it yourself.

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And then you don't have any input if you really disagree with the way that it's presented.

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That part of it is what is more concerning, I think, to most people.

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I think if you tell most people, well, listen, if we all looked at that movie about Ruby

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Bridges and it's teaching the kids about the things that, you know, these heroes that in

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the 1950s and 60s fought for civil rights, of course, or most everybody's going to like,

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yep, okay, that's fine.

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Let the kids see that as long as they're old enough.

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But it's these other issues that I think are more the reason why you said, I take a little

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bit of issue when you said earlier that parents for a long time kind of took a step back.

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And now they're realizing, oh, we shouldn't have.

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I don't think they really took a step back.

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I think they were all along.

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Nobody was really too concerned about this.

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But now there's some stuff coming in that is really different before I could be wrong.

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But my, my take on this is for a long time, yeah, there were some parents that were like,

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hey, I don't want you to want to read a hook thin because they use the N word, or I don't want

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you to, you know, read slaughterhouse five because it has some sex under something like that.

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That was the extent of it.

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But now people are getting pretty worried about a lot of transgender ideology and a different

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way of looking at the racial history of our country, meaning there's an idea that white

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people are evil and that they're inherently racist.

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And that's what kind of thing that people are pushing back against.

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And the reason that many people are now getting more involved in the decisions that these schools

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are making.

333
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Yeah, there is, I think there is a lot of that.

334
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But I don't think it's isolated to that sort of thing.

335
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There was an organization called Penn and I can't remember what it stands for.

336
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But it follows some of the, no, I agree, Brian.

337
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You don't have to prove it to me.

338
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I agree, it's not, it's not just that.

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I'm just saying you're seeing more of it because of those big issues.

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Sure, just like always, and footloos, they were worried about slaughterhouse five.

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I mean, for years, people have been worried about things like hook thin or what's

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something that you're seeing.

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Dr. Suze.

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Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things that people have been worried about.

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JD sounds or the catcher in the right people didn't like that one because of some of the

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topics that it touched upon and that it kind of dealt with suicide and things like that

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and sexualities.

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So people were worried about it.

349
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So I think this has always been an issue and it always will be.

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But I think you're seeing much more involvement in the alarm now from much more, many more people,

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not because we're still talking about the catcher in the right and hook thin, but because

352
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we brought in these other issues that we're talking about.

353
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There's okay, so let's take an example that most people would agree on.

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If a parent came in and said, I don't like the fact that you're teaching my child in an integrated

355
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classroom.

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I want my child to be segregated only to talk with white people.

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No one's going to say, well, we should really give this some consideration or look into the

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possibilities because he is a parent.

359
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And so there's people, a picture, a good point.

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Very few people.

361
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Well said.

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And so there are certain situations when most people would say the parent may have a perspective,

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but it doesn't matter because the child is heard in the process.

364
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And this is what it really comes down to is that the parent and the school, the administration

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the teachers all have the child's best interest at heart.

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And if you're going to, from the schools perspective, if you're going to restrict and limit

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that child exposure to experiences to information other than what they find and they're small

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little in-cylinder community, that child will be impacted in the negative way.

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And the parents looking at it saying, I don't want my child exposed to things that fall outside

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of our belief system or that they're not ready for an emotional level at an age level.

371
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So there's things that I don't want you that you're fully pushing on my child.

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In this case, like the sexuality, in the case you talked about with your friend, from both

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sides, they're doing it with the best of intention.

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They just disagree on what the outcome should be.

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And so then when you have an integrated versus a segregated classroom, most people would agree

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with what the outcome is on this situation with the exposure to a young child about things

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that may be there, not the information that receiving at home, that's with the disagreement.

378
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,880
I think is there not receiving at all?

379
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,920
Well, that child is not going to be taught about, you know, that you're the gender you

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identify with and the inside may not reflect the biology on the outside.

381
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Maybe maybe not.

382
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Why would you say that?

383
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Because he was bothered by it.

384
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But maybe he just doesn't want somebody talking about those things or maybe he thinks it's too

385
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soon or maybe he thinks that he that they're not presenting it in an open and unbiased way.

386
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I want the chance as a parent to present it in an open and unbiased way.

387
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You know, and I think I think Brian the other issue that we should talk about is what makes this

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difficult is also, and I know you're going to kind of, this is maybe you're just going

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to disagree with this.

390
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But also, it's the fact that many of these people don't have a choice.

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Like if you don't like what your school is doing because of the way our public school system

392
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,000
is set up, you can't move them someplace else.

393
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,200
Right.

394
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So whether it's because you disagree with the way that they're presenting, you know, sex

395
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ed or whether they're just poor teachers, if you don't have a lot of money, it's the poor

396
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,280
people that are suffering here because wealthy people can put their kids in a private school or

397
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,680
get some tutors or homeschool or do whatever they want.

398
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:31,960
If you're a single parent or you're both parents work, you can't homeschool and you can't

399
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,920
get your kids to a charter school, maybe if you're poor and you don't have time to drive them

400
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,880
around, these people are really locked in and I think it's really unfair.

401
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,120
So you're going to say, well, we're going to teach in whatever we think is right and

402
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,560
you can't be a part of it and you have to bring them here.

403
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,640
And we're going to, you know, it's almost like they're taking control from the parents of

404
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:57,200
raising their own kids, which to some degree, you know, you know, they're obviously, we don't

405
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:03,480
want kids to just be held at home and never get any education, but it is amazing that

406
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,040
we give them so little, so little choice and so few options.

407
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:15,680
Yeah. And first of all, let me say that I think that the situation you described about the

408
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:21,440
school being reluctant to give information to the parent, that seems we happen a little more

409
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,040
lately and I do feel, I do find that a little bothersome, a little concerning, you know,

410
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,480
that on the one hand you want that you have the teachers saying, we need the parents to be

411
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more involved because that we can't do it all just here in the school, we need the

412
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,120
parents to be helping at home, but then when the parents try and get involved in certain areas,

413
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like, well, well, no, you don't want, we can't tell you about that stuff. So, you know,

414
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,840
I recognize that these might be difficult uncomfortable conversations, but I think that the

415
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:57,000
parent should be involved and the parents should have a saying how things go. And also, everyone,

416
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,760
it's helpful to recognize that everyone has the best intention, whether the parent

417
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:07,880
looking at the school system teaching their child information that they don't feel the child

418
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:14,600
and ready for or the administration looking at the parents resistance to what is being taught

419
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,160
and recognizing that the parent also is thinking about the best interest of their child. It's

420
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,160
just they have different solutions to the problem.

421
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:29,400
Yeah, I would say Brian, you know, we talk about the difference between years past and, well,

422
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,480
oh my gosh, parents are all of the time just getting involved. Well, it's because a lot of these

423
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:39,160
issues did not come up back then. I mean, sure, some of them did, but a lot of this stuff,

424
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:45,080
I mean, transgender ideology, LGBT, Q stuff, it was like, it kind of told you what was going

425
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:50,080
on in sex, like, this is how you have it, but it wasn't, now it feels like there's almost

426
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:56,520
like social justice warriors in classrooms or people that are really pushing in ideology,

427
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,560
so it seems to me and you correct me if you feel, or you tell me if you feel differently. In the old

428
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,960
days it was like, well, what I do outside of the classroom as a teacher, I'm not going to, you

429
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:12,160
know, I'll just try to present everything and not try to sway people. It seems now like there's

430
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,640
an intent both in school, not a cross-the-bull in for sure. There's plenty of them that

431
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:23,960
are still doing it the way that they always have. But there's more of an intent to sway

432
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,920
children think as opposed to just presenting information. And I realize that's very difficult. I mean,

433
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,440
man, just if you present some information, it feels like you may be swaying that, like what

434
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,640
information do you present, you've only got so much time with these kids, like it's a little bit

435
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:45,240
difficult, but it does seem like now there's more delving into these topics and talking about a lot

436
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,640
more, you know, I mean, talking to kids about their sexuality when they're nine years old,

437
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,320
I don't believe that happened back when we were growing up. But maybe that was just a school I went to.

438
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,480
Maybe I'm not remembering. I think I would remember that because that would have freaked me out as a nine

439
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,960
year old, you know? It seems like there's a lot more of this going on and a much younger age than

440
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:10,520
ever before. Well, there is talks at different ages and at all that different ages, it's different

441
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:18,520
details. You know, when we got the sex that I got it in school anyway, I got it in the eighth grade.

442
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,920
And it was pretty graphic. It was pretty specific. I remember walking out feeling a little shell-shocked.

443
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:31,320
Not a little TSD. But when I've run across somebody's talks about what's happening in the school

444
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:37,480
systems at young ages, they're addressing it, but not with the detail, not with the specificity,

445
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:47,800
not with genitalia, for example, specifically. And so they're trying to keep it appropriate for the ages.

446
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:53,720
Now, in your friend's situation, clearly he feels whatever the, at least the way you're

447
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,760
you're describing. And he feels like the content that they're giving his child is not age appropriate.

448
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,720
He feels like it should be happening a little bit later. And the whole LGBT thing, that is new,

449
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,160
that is something that we weren't, wasn't coming into our schools. But when we were going through

450
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:15,240
the school system, there was a lot of talk about a lot of people and I think they still are

451
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,120
arguing, there should be no sex at in schools at all because if they just abstain, then they don't have

452
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,600
to worry about it. If they just wait till marriage, then there's not an issue. So you can learn it all

453
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,960
when you're on your wedding night. I don't think that's what people for about this. There are some

454
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:37,240
in some places that don't want sex at all in the school system. And that was great. Right. But

455
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,600
I think it's a bit reductionist to say, everybody who's concerned with sex at in schools is saying

456
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,520
it because of the fear of it on their wedding night. No, no, no, it's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying

457
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,720
is the arguments that the arguments have evolved. But there were still arguments that were happening

458
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,400
when we were in the school system. When we were in the school system, they were arguing about the

459
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,240
LGBT issue because that wasn't addressed at all. That was something you kept in the closet.

460
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,480
That's where, of course, the phrase come from. Now the issue has evolved because the conversation,

461
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,560
there are still small communities are looking at it from an abstention point of view, but it's also

462
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:15,880
gotten bigger than that. Yeah, but I mean, once again, the way you're talking about the argument in the past,

463
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,760
it's very reductionist the way you talk about it. People are saying, I guess the problem that some people

464
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,360
have with sex at right or wrong, and I'm not, I don't agree with this necessarily, is the idea that,

465
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,360
hey, well, you're just going to talk about it as if it's a four-gone conclusion that these kids are

466
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,400
going to have sex. Why not? Some people are just saying, why not include in that the idea of that

467
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:41,880
stension. Some people do, and you can talk about it, but people are poo poo, and I don't know, the kids are

468
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,160
all having sex. That's naive. You shouldn't talk about that. They start to get concerned with, well,

469
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:53,160
this, and if you present things with your worldview of the fact that there's only one way to look at it,

470
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440
you have to use condoms and you have to use birth control because everybody's having sex,

471
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:02,440
that's encouraging these kids to have sex in a younger age. There's just some back and forth about

472
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,520
the way it's presented. And listen, if you're going to be skewing it and presenting it in the way that you want,

473
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,400
maybe we shouldn't do it at all. Maybe you can let us have either some saying it or just let us do it.

474
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,520
So I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I think it's a reductionist to make them

475
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,600
often out as these naive people that are saying, well, we shouldn't have sex at, because my kids are

476
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,120
going to learn about it on their wedding night when they have sex for the first time. That's not what

477
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,680
most of these people are saying that have concerns with the way that sex was taught 30 years ago

478
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,320
on the way that it's taught today. No, it's not most people that think that way. At the same time,

479
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,000
when you present it, it's all just in where, though, when we're talking about the book bannings,

480
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:43,640
there has been 1,648 titles that have been banned. Now, you think about all the books that are out there,

481
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:49,160
that's a pretty small list. So clearly, it's not a huge number of books that are being banned.

482
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,560
It's a very small segment. And so this is one of the problems that we had with the news in general.

483
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,480
The news that people are talking about, no one is going up there and saying, well, we've had

484
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,280
no book bannings at our school district today, moving on to the other news. Now, we only hear about the news

485
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,320
that is actually getting people's attention. And so what is getting people's attention is the

486
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:15,000
books that are being banned and in the districts where that's happening. It can skew the impression.

487
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:21,800
And just like the talks about extension when we were young, the talks about the LGBT issues,

488
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:29,080
now at this end of this time, the talks about the book bannings, they're not as common as prevalent

489
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,960
as some might believe they actually are. We are running low on time, and I don't want to cut you off.

490
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,360
So if there's anything that you want to say to wrap this up, go ahead and bring it in now.

491
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:45,000
Yeah, yeah, I think it's been a good talk. I think there's been some things that we more

492
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,920
things that we agreed on than I thought we would. But I guess my thinking on it is parents should be

493
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:57,640
a huge part of this. And I really wish that parents had more both a bigger say in this. It was more

494
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:03,000
democratic because I don't know a better way to do it. You know, you kind of have to go with majority rule.

495
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,840
You're going to have people that disagree on when kids should start hearing about this stuff when they

496
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:12,680
shouldn't. And so yeah, you should let the parents in the school districts have some say in this and

497
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:19,560
allow them some control. And be kind about it. Like some of these people in places in Portland are

498
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,600
afraid to even talk about it because they'll be vilified if they disagree and be called bigitz or something else.

499
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:32,360
And but I I wish too that parents had more choice because yeah, if you just like the way the school is

500
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,640
handling it, go someplace else. Teach them at home. I think that is perfectly allowable. And to say that

501
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:43,000
the school is the only place where these kids are going to learn about sexuality is absurd. Of course,

502
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,800
parents are still going to talk about it some won't. But then they're going to be on the real world.

503
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,160
They're going to hear about this stuff. They can they've got the internet. They can figure this stuff out.

504
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,040
We don't need teachers to teach everything to our children because our otherwise our children are just

505
00:36:54,040 --> 00:37:00,840
going to be walking around like conservative, you know, fundamentalist Christian zombies or something.

506
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,240
There's a lot of information out there. And so we should be very careful about how we

507
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:12,040
how we handle this in the school systems. And we should give people more options so they can seek

508
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:17,400
someplace else to get there to take their kids. Yeah, I do agree that we should be having more

509
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:23,480
conversations about this. I feel like that in general are willingness to have difficult conversations,

510
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:32,440
has been has been diminishing. And I feel like the the people on the other side,

511
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,360
it's gotten really aggressive and how people talk about them. I heard someone talk on the left saying

512
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,920
they won't, they won't, you know, they're not going to be tolerant of fascists. And their fascist

513
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,240
comment was basically anyone to the right of center. You know, and so there's a general and

514
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:51,160
it goes the other way as well. You know, there's a general unwillingness to talk and to walk away unhappy with

515
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,960
the outcome. That's the other issue is that once we're unhappy we feel like, you know, we need to go fight,

516
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,840
you know, with something bigger, a bigger stick. And that's unfortunate. So anyway,

517
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:07,640
next week it's kind of a variation on theme. We're going to talk about the section 230. Is that the one,

518
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:14,280
the the internet, the responsibility of some of the social media and media companies and who who's

519
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:21,560
responsible for the content that comes up there. Okay. Cool. Thanks, hon. Yeah, good talk. Yeah,

520
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:29,160
have a great night. Okay, right. We hope you learned something in this episode of Brother Vs. Brother,

521
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:35,880
a podcast about difficult conversations. We also hope that you enjoyed it enough to subscribe to the podcast.

522
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:42,200
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523
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524
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:57,080
This information and more can be found on our website, broconvo.com and on our various social media

525
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,520
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526
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:08,520
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